Question:
John 6
37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
John 6
39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
John 10
28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[1] ; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
Romans 8
38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[1] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 Corinthians 3:
13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
Ephesians 1
13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.
Hebrews 13
5Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said,
"Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you
Hebrews 10
10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
1 John 5
13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
"The scriptures say we have eternal life, not temporary life and not conditional life. He gave us new life which last forever. Jesus would not say we have everlasting life if he meant life until you sin to much. That is not eternal and it really is not "Life". If salvation can be lost, it would not be salvation but probation. We would be under testing and examination, but we wouldn't have salvation. If we are not saved forever, then we are not even saved. How can we be saved from hell if we can still go to hell? Salvation means saved from hell and eternal death forever with no possible way of going there ever". Ray Mitchell
If you base salvation on your own actions you are basing it on works. If you believe works have anything to do with it you are living under a false doctrine and quite possibly are not even saved.

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i agree with stuffs completely you can never throw it away.. our god is a all forgiving god you may turn your back on him but if you have truly been save by gods grace you will never forget it it is awesome what he can do for you .
if you dont know him please get to know him you have nothing to lose but everything to gain

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There seesm to be some disagreement with your position here in the book of Hebrews Chapter 6


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Not really. It depends on how you interperate it and the context it is written in. These verses seem to be saying if a saved person falls away it is impossible for them to be saved, so they lost their salvation. It is impossible if they fall to be brought back to repentance. If that is true then this passage teaches we can only be saved once. After we fall away and loose our salvation then we are doomed forever with no way to be saved from hell. So it would be better to stay unsaved until we are near death so we don't use up our one shot.
That view contradicts the rest of the Bible that states salvation cannot be lost and that Gods love and forgiveness are endless. God does not make a one time offer but an all time offer.


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The passage Heb 6:4-6 is talking about believers. But not about them loosing salvation. Hebrews possibly more than most books teaches eternal security. This particular passage is teaching that someone cannot begin to serve the Lord again in truth while they are apostate and continue to believe in false doctrines of salvation. "Fall away" means to fall away from the true teachings of Christ, such as eternal security.
You really have to look at verse 6 to understand it. It does not say a thing about loosing salvation. Hebrews is saying a saved person cannot be serving the Lord while they doubt salvation, and a saved person cannot repent and start serving the Lord again WHILE at the same time they are doubting their salvation and believeing in false doctrines.

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True. But if you accept Christ at one point and then turn around and deny Him, you are in effect voiding the offer by using your freedom of choice to turn it down. Sure, it's after the fact, but you are still saying 'hey, I have decided that I don't accept you.' Sadly, that happens. I do not think, though, that you can lose that grace simply by sinning, because He did die for all of us, believer and non-believer alike. And through repentance we can be made clean over and over again. But outright denying Christ after accepting Him? It's my belief that the offer is then voided by our own choice. I could be wrong - truth is, it's a very gray area and hard to pin down. There are too many different interpretations of the same scripture to be sure.

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TPP dp you really think that is true. Wouldn't that be the same thing as saying our salvation depends on our own actions. I can tell you I wouldn't want it depending on me. I tend to do the wrong thing more often than not. But can you loose it by denying Jesus. You'll have to ask Peter about it. He denied Jesus 3 times as prophesied and was still saved.
I have to add that the story of the prodigal son is Jesus own example of eternal salvation. The son denied his father, lived in sin and completely turned his back on Him. Yet when he returned he did not need to be saved again or do any great things to get back in his fathers grace. In his fathers eyes he had never fallen from grace. To his brother he had slipped away but to his father he had not. His father simply rejoiced at his return. Sin can take a person far away from the grace God gives us and can put us in a place of misery. But it doesn't take awy from the fact we are children of the father.
The good thing about salvation it is simple to obtain and easy to keep plus it last forever.

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Either would I. But you are referring to sinning, which is covered by His grace. Denying Him is in effect telling Him that you don't want His grace anymore and we certainly all have our freedom to choose. Do I think He would withdraw that grace gladly? Not a chance. But I believe that he would sadly grant our wish.
Still, this topic is something I really don't have the answer to. You could be right - saved once means saved forever. I still think that if you deny Him after being saved, you are voiding the promise. Of course, I have no intention of ever finding that out, either, so for me the point is moot.

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"so for me the point is moot."
Since I dont intend on testing it again either I think I'll second that thought.
I only brought this subject up because someone pointed to scripture stating it is wrong when there is plenty of scripture that points to it being correct. Having been in that place where I was living in denial and had wandered far away even to a point of denying God in everyday life. Then realising that the only thing there was in life that didn't end and couldn't be taken away by some willful act. I came to a point where I knew the one thing I had was salvation and a father in heaven that would not turn his back on me or take away the gift he had given me no matter what I had done. Knowing that gift did not depend on me as almost everything else in this world deppends on the individuals actions. I had a security I could lean on. It's a good thing to have.

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You both make a good point. But I have to agree with Stuffs, a loving father will never turn his back on a child, no matter what. You would never do that to your own kid, would you?
And just because you are saved does not give you the right to do what you want. We still have to fallow the law of God. Just thought I would put that in.

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Individual apostasy is possible only for those who have first experienced the blood of the new covenant in regeneration and sanctification, renewal through the Holy Spirit and relationship with Christ.
In Jesus' analogy about the vine and the branches (JN. 15) the believer (branch) who remains in union with Christ (vine) is secure and has life.
Should a believer because of hardness of heart ever choose to break this relational grace-union with Christ and thereby "depart" that person may in the end perish eternally as an un believer.
JOHN 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
It must be emphasized that while "backsliding" is a danger for all who drift from the faith , apostasy does not occur without constant and willful sinning against the voice of the Holy Spirit .
The person whose heart is truly hardened by sin may then calculatingly choose to turn away from God.
HEBREWS 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Those who genuinely become concerned about their spiritual condition and find in their hearts the desire to return to God in repentance have sure evidence they have not committed the unpardonable sin or apostasy.
Scripture clearly affirms that God does not want anyone to perish and he joyfully recieves the prodigal who repents and returns to him.
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Stuffs, When I posted HEB.10:26-29 on the other thread, I was trying to point out that if someone once new the grace of salvation, and then departed from the faith altogether and denied that Jesus is Lord , then they have trodden under foot the son of God.
And unless they repent of that, how can their prior salvation count as anything?
One can't enter the kingdom of heaven denying that Jesus is the saviour of the world, for he is the way, the truth,and the life.
The willful decision to "backslide" on God is a tragic and dangerous decision indeed. and "Once saved always saved" is a false doctrine.
MATTHEW 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
COL. 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
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