Question:
That is, most of it anyway.
Oh yeah, I guess i should say what the lie is, huh?
The law suit against the parish to have the cross taken down and stuff like that that I reported earlier!
Yes, there was an attempt to sue for the removal of the cross, but it was turned down by the judge. He said the suit had no merit. He is supposedly threatened with a suit for not hearing the case. The judge is a member of the parish. I know him and spoke to him today.
The guy who tried to sue does not even live at the address he claimed. He looked at the house since it was for sale but told the realter that if the cross were to remain, he would not buy. He lives somewhere in Los Angelos County. (Another one, HELP!!!)
It seems that the word got out and everyone paniced. Stories started spreading all over and my phone rang off the hook. People came to the door. Rumors and untruths were flying everywhere. (they still are.)
The judge said the guy cannot sue as he is not a resident and also lied on the statements. He did use the 9th circuit court's arguments in a way that, according to da judge, might have some merit in the right court. I don't know what that is as he did not have time to discuss the case after Mass, but said he will write out a report for the Church and it will be an insert in next weeks bulliten.
I just wanted to post this so all those who showed some concern or were simply curious would know whats going on, or in this case, is not!
--"So long, and thanks for all the fish."--

Answer:

It only takes ONE nut-case to fan the flame from one little spark.. and the WHOLE forest goes up!!
It is people like he... to get public recognition... and state an unfounded 'goal'.
Sigh...
WHERE do these idiots come from??
Kat
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I —
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
*~ Official Keeper of the Here Birthday List~*

Answer:

But people are nuts. We had a guy in the town I live near that bought a tumble-down house in a single family neighborhood. He said he wanted to build an apartment building, and applied for a permit. The city had a zoning hearing for an exception, and all the neighbors signed a petition against it.
Well, the exception was denied, and the guy threatened to sue the city for "loss of income"!! I guess the city caved, because the house was razed, and building is going on. (The other houses are big old victorians - single family, and expensive.)
Yo-yos like that can do a lot of damage, I guess.

Answer:

I thought the idea was so outlandish, it must be true! Thank goodness he's just some nut who has no reason to do such an unspeakable thing. I live very close to a Roman Catholic church. Do you see me harassing them for having Church festivals at the nearby park or having a cross? No. Because it's so silly to expect such a thing. And, who cares? I sure don't. I'd be very opposed to such an injustice. Seriously, it is a church, therefore it has the right to display religious symbols and hold festivals, barring any criminal misconduct. This person had a baseless case and caused many people to become agitated. This person should be sued or held in contempt of court for perjuring documents. Christians, Pagans, Buddists, every religion has the right to show their symbols, again, barring criminal misconduct. Atheists have the right to NOT show symbols. But they don't have the right to infringe on others' rights. No one does. Don't let this get to you. Realize that this was just some nut who wanted to buy a house, but wouldn't cause he's close-minded. Pray that he sees the errors of his ways. I'm sorry you and the church had to go through this. Things will look up in no time.
Blessings!!!!

Answer:

in Europe. They were so very old, and I was always amazed at the primitive technology of the times, and yet they built those magnificent structures! And the sense of history, and of all the people who had passed that way...
I always felt very close to the deity in those places. I think it was perhaps that centuries of reverence had imparted an aura of spirituality to them.
Or perhaps it was, as Umberto Eco suggested in "The Name of the Rose" and "Foucault's Pendulum" that they were built upon natural lines of power in the earth, in accordance with direction from the Knights Templar...
Ramman, you are both highly literate and Catholic, so have you read Eco, and if so, what do YOU think!!
I was going to put a little "ghost story" here, but will do a separate thread...

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One of the problems with the American Civil Law system is that anyone can bring suit against anyone for anything, whether the suit has merit or not. Often by the time the Judge decides to not hear the suit the damage to reputations is already done.



Answer:

Ramman, you are both highly literate and Catholic, so have you read Eco, and if so, what do YOU think!!
No, I'm afraid I can't say I have, but will check it out in time.
As for the rest, I think the thing that upsets me the most is there are people out there with this sort of agenda. It's not even so much that they attempt to accomplish thier deeds, but the attention they get.
If I were to call the paper and say I am going to file a law suit to enforce the provisions of the constitution no one would do anything more than chuckle and ask if I have been taking my meds. Yet, some intolerant yahoo comes along and wants to do something like this, they normally get all the national headlines. This pushes thier agenda more than the court decisions do.
Oh well, I'll let you know if anything else comes about on this. I am also told they could go right to the 9th circuit to appeal the decision not to hear the case so it's possible he might get his headlines yet. It probably won't matter that he's wrong and even lied in the suit.
--"So long, and thanks for all the fish."--

Answer:

would hear that case. It is totally frivolous, and is a waste of taxpayers' money to use the judges' time to even think about it!
What rot!! So what next? The military cemeteries all have to remove all crosses, stars of David and crescent moons? (There's a thought, those are "public" property... ) The civilian cemeteries? All churches have to look like the Kingdom Halls of the Jehovah's Witnesses? (Not that their houses of worship aren't nice, but it isn't for everyone...)
Will the Pa. Dutch have to remove all the hex signs from their barns? I can't have St. Francis in my front yard feeding the birds? All those neat little 50's bathtub grottoes with St. M have to go? (I love them - so very retro!)
I thoroughly believe in separation of church and state, but we don't need to become idiots about it. I think this is more for PERSONAL publicity than out of any sense of outrage over public display of religion...

Answer:

Both books are VERY long, and take some getting used to. Eco is Italian, and the books are translations. The grammar is, well, different!
But they are well worth reading! Rose is set in a monastery in Austria in the middle ages, and Pendulum is set in modern times. I'm thinking they made a movie of Rose, but I may be mistaken...

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Sean Connery, Christian Slater. Very good movie.

Answer:

What rot!! So what next? The military cemeteries all have to remove all crosses, stars of David and crescent moons? (There's a thought, those are "public" property... ) The civilian cemeteries? All churches have to look like the Kingdom Halls of the Jehovah's Witnesses? (Not that their houses of worship aren't nice, but it isn't for everyone...)
Will the Pa. Dutch have to remove all the hex signs from their barns? I can't have St. Francis in my front yard feeding the birds? All those neat little 50's bathtub grottoes with St. M have to go? (I love them - so very retro!)

This is the entire point. We all think the idea is absurd and ignore it. Yet it does not go away. These people keep coming back, each time with new ammo and a different direction.
Many people were shocked and outraged by the very idea that the court could rule the pledge unconstitutional, yet they did. The man who filed the suit in the first place has made it very clear that this is only the begginning, and he has a lot of support. Where does it stop?
These same people claim intolerance on our part and that thier rights are being abused, yet they publically state they are not happy until they get thier way on every point. This means taking away the rights of those who, for the most part, are tolerant.
Except for certain radical fringe groups, the average Christian is more than tolerant. Many have accepted political correctness as they do not want to hurt anybody. Someone claims they are offended by something so everyone else must bend over backwards to accomodate, giving up more freedoms in the process. Again, where does it stop?
Then someone like me stands up and claims I am offended as they remove more and more of my rights in the name of polical correctness. I am told it's just too bad. The very things that are important to me are the things the politically correct crowd is offended by.
I am sorry that God is offensive to some. While I cannot prove conclusively that God exists, He has proven Himself to me many times over. I will continue to stand up, not only for my rights to worship God, but for all other's as well. I will also continue to stand up for the rights of those who do not want to worhip God as those are the same rights I have to worship. I will also continue to pray for those who do not believe.
I was told a story of a child who said he felt bad for God. It was a beautiful and touching story. (Before I start hearing how this boy's love for God is only what he has learned from others, I do understand, but also acknowledge that he may have a real spiritual insight of his own. Children do have a clearer insight on these matters than we adults do, and his love for God had to have come from somwhere, not just teachings from adults.)
God does not need our pity. I believe He is offended though. If you were God, wouldn't you be?
--"So long, and thanks for all the fish."--

Answer:

Once again I think people are missing the point here. The amendment in question has nothing to do with an individuals rights to display religious symbols, it merely restricts Government from favouring, or seeming to favour, one religion over others. As far as crosses on a grave marker, doesn't apply since the crosses are an individual expression of faith. Same thing with crosses or star of david on a church or synagogue, no government involvement so no restriction. Displaying the ten commandments on your front yard is exempt but displaying it in a courtroom is not. I can't for the life of me understand how some people can't understand the difference.



Answer:

because they don't wish to Havoc...
All they really WANT to gain is the notarity of being in the public's eye and on TV...
I betcha they don't give a FIG about the what or why they are doing this... it all comes down to the above statement.
Kat
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I —
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
*~ Official Keeper of the Here Birthday List~*

Answer:

I said it before and I'll say it again:
I thoroughly believe in separation of church and state, but we don't need to become idiots about it. I think this is more for PERSONAL publicity than out of any sense of outrage over public display of religion...

There is a radical fringe on both ends of the spectrum that can make a lot of noise, and they can do a lot of damage. And since something like veterans' cemeteries are government property... Some yayhoo will start something, sooner or later.(Although I actually don't know what they put on a grave of an atheist soldier. Or a Wiccan, for that matter. Interesting thing to research!)
Having said that, I still think there is a difference between St. Francis in my front yard and the ten commandments on the courthouse lawn. I just hope others continue to see it that way, as well!
PS...I like St. Francis, not because of any ties to the church, but because he is the patron saint of animals. If you could see the critters here, you'd understand why I've "borrowed" him! However, someone who did not know me, and accidentally ended up here might be offended...thinking he was a religious figure.
Last edited by mrs. greybeard on Tue Jul 16, 2002 7:05 am; edited 1 time in total

Answer:

MrsGB, have you ever read the "Little Flowers Of St. Francis"? It was originally written by Brother Ugolino di Monte Santa Maria about a hundred years after the death of St. Francis in Latin and called the "Actus". It was then translated into Italian and called the "Floretti," or "Little Flowers".
The version I have is one of the most complete translations in English and compliled by Raphael Brown, published by Image Books.
I have had more than on non Christian tell me it is among the most beautiful and spiritual books ever written, even if it is in a Christian bent.
Francis' relation to God's creation has been an inspiration to many, including certain environmentalists and animal lovers, even those who do not believe in God.
Many versions are just relating stories, but fail to get into the mystical side of Francis and his relationship to all of God's beauty within creation. I bet you would like it.
--"So long, and thanks for all the fish."--
Last edited by Ramman on Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:25 am; edited 1 time in total