Question:

Jesus Christ, denominations, charismatics,religion Preachers,believers,baptisms,demons,tongues,snakes,poison,healing and other things that drive people up the wall
Mama Echo asked a question that I think deserves an answer, I also think it begs a number of other questions.
IS there anyone out there who CAN enlighten us what it is like in a Charismatic Church?
We use a lot of words, terms and phrases that have specific religious meaning, those who are not familiar with them quickly get lost or their eyes glaze over.
Here are just a few, dispensationalists, charismatics, justified, sanctified, glorified, pretrib, midtrib, posttrib, fundamentalists, and washed in the blood of the lamb, I’m sure you can think of others.
In this thread, I hope we can define some of the labels we use according to their scriptural/religious meaning.
I myself am going to try not to define more than one or two words per reply and apply the kiss principle (keep it simple stupid) to avoid info overload.
REVELATION 12: 10 & 11
for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Last edited by churchmouse on Tue Jan 22, 2002 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

Answer:

“Charismatic" denotes a style of Christian worship and not a denomination (like Baptist or catholic). Within many denominations there are charismatic groups. The exception to this is the few denominations that will excommunicate you if you manifest gifts of the Holy Spirit.
In a charismatic worship service the singing and music will likely be up beat and antamated, some may even dance in the aisles, in most gatherings there will be very little handshaking and alot of hugging.
It is expected that the spirit of God will be there and that he is no respecter of a person’s position in the church.
Therefore the born again car driver sitting in the congregation might stand to give a message from God to the pastor or the whole congregation. He would be listened to not because he is a driver, but a vessel of the Holy Spirit.
During prayer one may be instantly healed, or freed from addiction. Another overcome by the Spirit of GOD and fall gently to the floor in a state of Divine bliss.
GOD may give you the ability to speak a language you’ve never spoken before, and someone else the gift to interpret it.
All these things can happen in a charismatic service, and all because LORD Jesus sent the comforter who is the Holy Ghost to those who believe and he gives good gifts to his children.
Charismata
The Greek term charisma denotes any good gift that flows from God's benevolent love (charis) unto man; any Divine grace or favour, ranging from redemption and life eternal to comfort in communing with brethren in the Faith (Rom., v, 15, 16; vi, 23; xi, 29). The term has, however, a narrower meaning: the spiritual graces and qualifications granted to every Christian to perform his task in the Church: "Every one hath his proper gift [charisma] from God; one after this manner, and another after that" (I Cor., vii, 7 etc.). Lastly, in its narrowest sense, charisma is the theological term for denoting extraordinary graces given to individual Christians for the good of others. They are: "The word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, the grace of healing, the working of miracles, prophecy, the discerning of spirits, diverse kinds of tongues, interpretation of speeches" (I Cor., xii, 8-10). To these are added the charismata of apostles, prophets, doctors, helps, governments
REVELATION 12: 10 & 11
for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Last edited by churchmouse on Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

Answer:

Churchmouse - Great overview of the typical Charismatic church or gathering. Some may think they sound similar to pentecostal, & they are, but are a much younger movement, and therefore not as structured, organized & headquartered. Many groups do not meet in seperate facilities from their older mainline church, but instead operate almost like a subchurch (or prayer group) within a larger non-charismatic church. Sometimes the pastor or priest are part of the group or movement, and sometimes it is entirely lay people leading the group. They tend to emphasize the various gifts of the Holy Spirit and a close relationship with the Lord.
God Bless!
ForHim

Answer:

Thanks, Churchmouse, for starting this thread. There are many words we all toss around with a pretty good idea what we mean by them. Unfortunately, our listeners don't always understand them to mean the same thing. Often this leads not only to misunderstanding, but also to animosity.
In its strictest sense, I see "charismatic" as referring to the charismatic gifts of the Spirit. But, remember the world also uses the word "charisma" as a quality possessed by some people of attractiveness and leadership ability.
In general, I do not use the term charismatic to describe people who consider themselves Pentecostal. In those cases I use Pentecostal. I generally use the term charismatic to mean any church that emphasises "feelings" or "experience" over doctrine. One of the chief characteristics of many broadly evangelical charismatic churches is that they purposely avoid discussion of doctrine. It is viewed as divisive!!! The emphasis is on being one in the Spirit despite a lack of oneness in doctrinal understanding. The rallying cry is that so long as we all believe in Jesus, all other issues are minor, incidental, secondary, and not worth arguing over. Another frequent (though not always) feature is that the church is built around a particular leader who quite often is charismatic in the worldly sense of the word. All too often the followers believe simply because the leader says so, not because the Bible says so. The irony is that, in many cases, these churches I refer to as charismatic do not emphasize and may even reject the charismatic gifts of tongues, etc.
And so, if I say something about charismatics, please do not take offense that I am calling you Pentecostal. Sometimes I do mean to include Pentecostals and others. More often, I simply mean people who place more emphasis on feelings and experience than they do on doctrine. Thus, I agree with Nocount that doctrine is of little importance in these churches. I also agree with Churchmouse and ForHim that certain behaviors stem from that. Worship services are generally "anything goes". Bible study groups are often led by immature and uneducated members whose desire to study the Word is commendable, but which often turn into nothing more than a sharing of ignorance.
As offensive as that may be to some of you, that's the way I see it. Thanks again for this thread that gives us each the chance to define our terms. Don't get me started on "Dispensationalist"!!
BTW - I strongly disagree with any implication that noncharismatics lack a close personal relationship with Christ. Orthodoxy need not be cold, even though the unorthodox usually attach that adjective every time they use the noun. People like Calvin, Luther, George Whitefield, etc. were keenly interested in doctrine, but were also led by the Spirit and were men of frequent prayer and deep love for Christ.
Job -- the exception to almost every rule

Answer:

They are very enlightening observations and explained in a way that does not make it seem like you think you are right and they are wrong...
I generally use the term charismatic to mean any church that emphasises "feelings" or "experience" over doctrine. One of the chief characteristics of many broadly evangelical charismatic churches is that they purposely avoid discussion of doctrine. It is viewed as divisive!!! The emphasis is on being one in the Spirit
I personally do not see this view as being all that bad. (as long as you do know Doctrine,) I think it is devisive to squabble over it.
Can you be one in the Spirit and have those in the congregation fighting among themselves? I do not think you can, but that's just me.
Ma G.
Last edited by Ma G. on Wed Jan 23, 2002 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total

Answer:


Don't get me started on "Dispensationalist"!!

But, did anyone listen? Noooo! Nocount just had to start that thread on eating crumbs. Now I'm all wound up to the point of sharing the following:
Once Upon a Dispensation
by Mr. Russell Lane

Once upon a dispensation........
We could get saved in a way we couldn't, now we can't, but tomorrow we can.
There is the Book that is all literal, except where WE spiritualize; which is wrong to do, except when it's right, I'm sure, I think. This Book is all mine, except for most of most of it.
We have an age that is better than the old; but tomorrow the old will improve what is better.
There was a people that were His people, that aren't his people, but will be.
We have a King who has a throne and authority and a Kingdom. But, He isn't a king; nor does He have authority, nor a throne, nor a Kingdom.
There will be a perfect (almost) world after our secret parenthesis (isn't this mysterious), and after seven years of unregenerate believers, Spiritless witness, and churchless saints. Then we will live happily FOREVER after for a thousand years.

This poem was written while Russell and I were attending a Dispensational Bible College. Instructors and students there were fond of saying in the Old Testament people were saved by works of the law, but in the present age we are saved by grace through faith. In the millennium (they claimed), God will renew dealing with the Jews and they will once again be saved by works of the law. Of course, we know this is false, because no man was ever justified by works of the law. Even Abraham was saved through faith. (PAUL says so!). Thus the line about being saved in a way we couldn't.
As all good Dispensationalists, those at this school looked for natural fulfilments of every prophecy and gritted their teeth when a spiritual fulfilment was pointed to. "You're spiritualizing the text" they would claim. They simply couldn't imagine the Bible might address spiritual matters! Thus the next line. And our friend Nocount has ably shown what is meant by the Book being mine except for most of most of it. According to them, only the writings of Paul are for us in the Church age. The rest of the Bible is for Jews.
The current age was cheered by all as being better than the Old Testament age. But, somehow returning to the Old Testament order will be an improvement over the current in the millennium. Uh huh.
The Jews were his people; but, now they're not; but will be again. (They say)
Christ (according to PAUL) is a King with power sitting on a throne at the right hand of the Father. But (according to Dispensationalists) He will not be the King until He returns to set up His millennial Kingdom. (Never mind that, when asked about this by Pontius Pilate, Christ said His Kingdom is not of this world. Suggesting Christ's Kingdom might instead be a spiritual kingdom is "spiritualizing the text", which of course is wrong except when it's right.)
No, our present age was never imagined by the Old Testament, or Christ, or any of the Apostles other than Paul. It was a SECRET PARENTHESIS in the flow of prophecy, a MYSTERY not understood by even Christ Himself. It is "plan B", instituted by the Father only after that incompetent Son of His failed to save those He intended to. (Or so goes the claim of the Dispensationalists)
Lastly, "that which hindereth" (the Holy Spirit) must be removed prior to the seven year Great Tribulation so the AntiChrist can make his appearance. The Church (body of believers, not an organized denomination), being the dwelling place of the Spirit, must be removed with the Holy Spirit in a secret "rapture", leaving the new converts in the tribulation without the indwelling Spirit or churches in which to grow in the faith. After this 7 years of spiritless witnessing and churchless saints, Christ will return and we will all live happily ever after, or at least for a thousand years (or so they claim).
The other interesting thing about this particular Bible School was it was very legalistic. Total abstinance was preached almost as often as baptism by immersion (which was at least every other day in a Baptist school!).
Through listening to our teachers, Russell and I both became convinced the system of doctrine taught there (Dispensational and legalistic) was not in agreement with the clear teaching of Scripture. Thus my new signature line........
Job - Not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men that turn from the truth.(Titus 1:14)
Last edited by Job on Fri Jan 25, 2002 4:25 am; edited 1 time in total