Question:
Since Wed. (March 8th) is "Ash Wed.", I thought I might provoke some serious thought on the subject of "The Lent Season".
"Lent" is a period of 40 days, excluding Sundays, beginning at "Ash Wed". This is a time of self-examination, a time of deprivation, a time of pentince, a time to prepare oneself for the "Easter Celebration". Now all of this is very important in "church circles" today. People go to church this time of year who never go any other time. And the church decides what thing that should be set aside, the things that gratify the flesh, any type of wordly pleasure, such as eating sweets, going to the moves, watching t.v., dancing and it could be any number of things that the church has decided that must be set aside for a "season".
Is "Lent" right or wrong? Should "true Christians" observe it? Should we go along with it? Should we just say, "well it really doesnt matter-----which attitude is correct?
If you will read Leviticus16:14-17, you will find the "Day of Atonement" for the nation of Israel. This was the most important day in the calender year of Israel. The only day that the High Priest was allowed in the Holy of Holies. No other person was allowed in the Tabernacle at this most solemn moment. On the "Day of Atonement" Israel's sins were "Atoned" for. They were not "washed away", they were "covered" for another year.
Something very important happened on that day, look at Leviticus 16:29-31. On this day Israel was to examine themselves, they were to have "remorse", they were to "labor" over their transgressions, they were to bring to their minds the terrible things they were guilty of. The things that they had said, the thoughts that they had had, the acts that they had committed. They were to "afflict their souls". This was not by choice, it was manadatory!
Read Leviticus 23:27-29------Now! There is one day and one day only in the calendar year of the nation of Israel that a Jew was to "afflict his soul", to have remorse, to examine his life.
Let us go forward 1500 years and come to John the Baptist. He came preaching "repent and be baptized" Jesus Christ and the "Twelve" came and preached "repentance". At Pentecost, Peter preached "repentance" REPENTANCE WAS FOR AND ESSENTIAL TO THE NATION OF ISRAEL! There could be no salvation under Israel's program without repentance. Repentance, self-examination, affliction to the soul, and then be water baptized, all was manadatory for Israel for the "remission of sins". ----Let me just say this right now, one of the most stricking facts about the doctrine of repentance in the bible is that this doctrine is TOTALLY ABSENT FROM JOHN'S GOSPEL! In all 22 chaps. in the Gospel Of John, there is not even so much as one reference to repentance. Now all Christians will agree that John's Gospel is the message of Eternal life and clearly his message is COMPLETE AND WITHOUT ANY REFERENCE TO REPENTANCE, WHATSOEVER!
(This is part 1---part 2 will follow---part 2 of "Should a Christian Observe Lent" will follow )

Answer:

Nocount:
I have enjoyed reading through the study...there is much to what you say, IMO. It was kinda hard to follow through four different threads, so I pasted it into a web page to make it easier for folks to read it all. I hope you don't mind...if so, I would be happy to remove it. frankly, I think it's a good work.
I had a problem getting the "background" to save, but the text reads well. Seems my servers have a prblem with gif's right now, so I will fix that in the am. That background is supposed to look like clouds..nice fluffy ones like we never see here in Wa!
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God Bless,
M Black
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day......2 Timothy 1:12:

Answer:

Nocount,
Thanks for the work you have put into this four part study. It obviously wasn't done in three minutes.
I have not had time to really STUDY the four posts (too much material and not enough time AS YET), but hope to within a day or two. I do have two very quick comments, though, pertaining to the first post.
The first is, I do not practice Lent as you have described. I have always believed, if there was something that needed to be given up because it was a hinderance to spirituality, it ought to be given up permanently not just for 40 days. I am also suspicious of the things most people give up, because they are things not specificly commanded to be abstained from by Scripture. That is, they seem to be man made attempts to please God in superficial ways -- religion at its worst!
The second comment is a note of caution regarding your statement " In all 22 chaps. in the Gospel Of John, there is not even so much as one reference to repentance. Now all Christians will agree that John's Gospel is the message of Eternal life and clearly his message is COMPLETE AND WITHOUT ANY REFERENCE TO REPENTANCE, WHATSOEVER! " The last I knew, there were four Gospels. None of these is the whole. They complement each other. John records things the others do not. The others record things John does not. The four Gospels were written to different audiences for different purposes. Matthew and Mark seem to be written primarily to Jewish audiences to persuade them Jesus is their long awaited Messiah. John appears to be written more for Greek philosophers, using concepts familiar to them, such as "the logos". Luke was a deliberate methodical history. I hope your quote was not intended the way I read it as saying we can trust John alone for doctrine with complete disregard for what the other Gospels say. Jesus is quoted by all the others as telling people to repent. The apostles are also quoted in Acts as telling people to repent.
Repentance from sin is and always has been sound Christian doctrine. We do not earn salvation by repenting, but choose to repent in response to the grace God has shown us in Christ. Repentance is an every day thing for believers, not limited to the 40 days of Lent!
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For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. (John 3:16-18 NIV)

Answer:

Job, in answering you, in relation to "repentance", I am fully convinced that far too many "preachers" treat "repentance" as a condition for salvation. And anyone who fully understands the Biblical concept of Eternal Salvation recognizes the fact that "FAITH" ALONE IS THE SOLE CONDITION FOR JUSTIFICATION AND ETERNAL LIFE.
In Acts 16:31 Paul does not tell the Philippian jailer to "repent and believe", but Paul simply tells him to "believe".
I do not accept the teaching that forgiveness is conditional upon repentance. Now! Right here let me make myself perfectly clear. Repentance is simply a "change of mind" and the "process" is to continue throughout our Christian life. Eternal salvation rests upon our "faith" in the person of Jesus Christ and His Work for us, our relations with God rests upon our "minds being changed" from "earthly things to heavenly things", from "things that are perishing to things that are eternal".
I will agree that repentance "might" come before salvation, BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE TO! IT IS NOT A CONDITION FOR SALVATION. God does command men to repent, but He does not put it out as a condition for His Marvelous Grace. If we desire a close fellowship with Him, we "repent" daily (change our minds), as we read His Word and grow in His Grace.
As far as the Gospel of John, the other three Gospels are "Synoptic Gospels", that is, they different from John's Gospel. The "Synoptic Gospels" view the life of our Lord as a "man", John views His life as "God-Man". John's Gospel was written well after Acts 28:28, when the "transition" from the "old to the new" was complete, "Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it". The "Synoptic Gospels" were written before "The Body of Christ" was ever started. John's Gospel was written after "The Body of Christ" had Its' "birth".
Allow me to quote something out of the Scofield Study Bible(I am sure that you have one) "The doctrines of grace are to be sought in the Epistles, not in the Gospels"---also, "The Gospels do not unfold the doctrine of the Church".

Answer:

Agreed. Saved by faith alone. Repentance does not purchase salvation. Repentance is a response to salvation not a means to earn it.
In your initial post, I wasn't quite sure if you were paving the way for saying repentance has no place at all in Christianity. It is Biblical as going hand in hand with regeneration. Though not necessarily using the word, Paul certainly taught the doctrine. For example, Romans 6 "Shall we continue to sin....." Repentance is turning from sin. (It is not turning from candy, television, or anything else some people give up for Lent.)
Did I ever mention that, when I was a teenager, I told my Pastor I would give up church for Lent?

Answer:

This is still puzzling to read. Nocount is saying that repentence is not necessary for salvation. Okay, I'll concede that for the moment.
Consider this though:
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Luke 18:10-14
Although we associate repentence with remorse, in Biblical terms it is more of an acknowlegement of ones own unworthiness. One who loves the Lord does not exalt himself, but rather humbles himself before the Lord. Not to acknowlege ones own unworthiness is merely vain deceit. Mankind has that in spades.
God bless all. - TC

Answer:

Pilgrim,
I can't speak for Nocount, but will (in the immortal words of Richard Nixon) make my position perfectly clear.
Repentance is not something we do prior to regeneration as a means of obtaining God's favor so He will then save us. Repentance is a gift of the Holy Spirit given concurrently with regeneration. A man who does not repent (like the Pharisee you referred to) has not truly been converted and does not have saving faith. Only a person (like the Publican) who, by conviction of the Holy Spirit, recognizes and is remorseful for his sin can possibly ask God for forgiveness of it.

Answer:

In the parable of "The Pharisee and The Publican", in my opinion, the deep-seated truth that our Lord was presenting here, was the difference in what they thought of themselves. There is not a hint of either one "repenting".
The Pharisee viewed himself as "righteous".
The Publican viewed himself as "a sinner".
And here, in my opinion, is the central issue with anyone. How do we look upon ourselves? Are we "righteous", or do we need a "Saviour"?
The Pharisee even "thanked" God that he was not like other men. Does that remind you of anyone? Sounds like a "self-righteous" church member to me. This "righteousness" that this Pharisee had, in his mind, came from God. And look at all the "good works" that he had to his credit. So naturally this "righteousness", surely must have come from God.
But the Publican realizing that he had no "righteousness", cast himself upon God. And this is the position that any person needs to come. Until a person realizes that he is a sinner and has no "righteousness" , that person will never place his "faith" in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
I have said this over and over in my life. I would rather work with some "drunk" or "harlot" than with a person who has been raised up in a Christian home and become a church member and gone through all the "rituals". The drunk knows that he needs Jesus Christ, the church member thinks he is fine, but the sad part, he is just as "unrighteous" as the "lowest" sinner, but he doesnt realize it and you cant convince him otherwise.
Let me add something else that is very interesting to me about this "religious" Pharisee. In Luke 18:12 the Pharisee said, "I fast twice in the week". Now the Law only required "fasting" once a year. Religion adds on! Religion adds "rituals". Religion adds ordinances. On and on and on we could go. But in keeping with our theme, Religion has added "Lent". There is no Scripture in Pauline Epistles (The only Epistles for the Church)for a Christian to observe "Lent".