Question:
Now Bob, I do not think you are justified to make such are remark as "heartless" people which reflects the posters on this board.
CP Bob said .. "I just did not know that there were as many heartless people in the world and I guess, if anything has made that more evident to me than anything else, has been my involvement with this board.
I am not heartless and I don't see anyone else on this board as heartless. I have a right to disagree with you about anything possible that could effect my life or anyone I love. Just as you can disagee with me and anyone else, but that does not make your heartless either.
One thing this board and the other forums do is allow us to see things in many different ways, to learn the thoughts of others and learn from knowledge and experience. No one will every agree on one item or another, it will never happen; but agreeing to disagee is a solution. This makes me heartless? I don't think so.
CP Bob said ... "People who see nothing wrong with killing babies, and not only see nothing wrong with it - they are willing to come here and publicly state it for the world to hear. God help us as a society and as a nation. We are moving ourselves closer to failure as a result of what we are becoming."
I, as a woman, who has given natural birth to a son believes in the right of choice. You have your opinion, I have mine. Your job is not to try to change my opinion by playing with words. As a CP, you are here to guide us, help us in thoughts and confusion on the religous believes that we may not understand; but to tell us we are heartless?
The fact that you felt it necessary to describe an "abortion" is and will remain disgusting to me .. graphics are not needed. That's my opinion and I've stated it. I care less if the whole world see's it, I will not go to hell, God is my father as he is yours and anyone else who claims him.
Because two people are old enough to have sexual relationships and a mistake may occur, are they doomed to go to hell for their mistakes. No, God forgives our sins.
Judgement: 1. a decision or opinion given after judging; a formal decision given by the court. 2. the final judging of mankind by God. 3. the process of forming an opinion by discerning and comparing 4. the capacity for judging
souce: Funk & Wagnalls, Home and Student Dictionary

Answer:

Kathy,
What I have seen demonstrated on this board is that we have some people who care and are concerned with the spiritual direction our country is going and continuing to go concerning the process of murdering little babies that you never get to hear the cry come from their little hearts.
We, likewise have those who are in my opinion heartless when it comes to murdering babies. If people can be for murdering babies and still say they have a heart for a defenseless little baby, then I say that they have demonstrated and uncaring and heartless attitude for the sake of the unborn child who as we were discussing on that thread as having no rights. The very taking of a life while in the protective custody of the person God granted the miracle of birth is not a very good way of showing appreciation for choosing the mother.
And I never said that you have to agree with me. Hairbear and I have agreed to disagree. I told you in the email that we could agree to disagree. As long as you understand that it is not me that you are in disagreement with in the first place. What I speak and what I reference is from what I have been given.
I emailed you and told you that the reason I gave the graphic description is that our country likes a clinical approach to killing and they do not like the word murder being used. You want to air this on the board - so be it.
Because two people are old enough to have sexual relationships and a mistake may occur, are they doomed to go to hell for their mistakes. No, God forgives our sins.

1. and a mistake may occur. What mistake - that they decided to have sex or the conception or the fact that a baby's life was started. Where is the mistake?
   
2. Why does the baby have to pay for the mistake? What did the baby have to do with the mistake. The baby is innocent, but has pay for the mistake.
   
3. I never said that anyone goes to hell over a mistake. There is only one mistake that will send anyone to hell and that is to reject the Son of God and what He did for us on the cross. All other sins are forgiveable and will be when one repents of the sin, and confesses it before a Holy God who is faithful to forgive the sin and cleanse the person from all unrighteousness.
   
4. No one ever ask nor was the question ever raised that the choice made by the mother would result in an eternity in hell for her. I even made the comment that I love all mothers, but I hate the choices they make to kill their children. I for one am glad that you brought up the subject so that it can now be answered.
   

Your job is not to try to change my opinion by playing with words.
Playing with words - what words? The babies are wantonly slaughtered no different than if you took them to a slaugter house and hit them over the head with a sledge hammer. The end result is death. Can you play with that word - death? They die as a result of the choice made by the mother. They are gone forever never to be returned. Death is real and it does make a difference how it happens.
There is no way to pretty that up. I am not the one trying to play with words here. Those who are trying to pretty it up by saying that the fetus has been aborted and the benign tissue has been disposed. That is like saying "Houston, we have a problem" when in essence half the ship has been blown away by an explosion.
When Cain slay Abel, his brother, God said that his blood was crying up to Him from the ground. How loud do you think the cry is today with the millions of babies that have been murdered?
to guide us, help us in thoughts and confusion on the religous believes that we may not understand; but to tell us we are heartless
I point you to Scripture, God does the guiding. The Holy Spirit gives the conviction and understanding.

Psalm 139:13-16
For you created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

There is a thread on judgement and your comments about judgement should be taken there. Suffice it to say, and you continually want to come back to this now for about the third or fourth time, judgement as I have related from Scripture and not from me, deals with judging one's salvation. I have not nor will I judge one's salvation. I for example, would never tell you that you are going to hell for what you believe.
I will say that I hope before someone picks up on what you or me are saying as the truth that they need to verify it against what Scripture is saying.
Kathy, I have hit a nerve and I know it - but so be it. You lay those things out there and I have got to respond according to my beliefs about Scripture, otherwise, I would be remiss as the CP.
This corner is not like the other forums, I have to represent God and what He says in His Scipture and if that is a problem then go the other forums and have a ball talking about abortion and getting rid of the tissue by discarding it in a trash can at the end of the day. I promise that I will not come and say one word on those forums.
But do not come here and expect to get God's sanction on the murder of little babies.
Bob CRyder Hataway
CP

Answer:

Heartless, indeed.
CP sez "What I speak and what I reference is from what I have been given."
Divine interpretation.
Where in the bible does it state anything specifically about abortion? Where in the bible does it say that anyone that advocates "pro-choice" is heartless?
CP sez, "I never said that anyone goes to hell over a mistake. There is only one mistake that will send anyone to hell and that is to reject the son of God and what he did for us on the cross. All other sins are forgiveable and will be when one repents of the sin, and confesses it before a holy God who is faithful to forgive the sin and cleanse the person from all unrighteousness."
Which hat are you wearing today, CP?
7/3/99 08:52 Thread Abortion-Your Thoughts
CP sez, "It is murder to kill babies while covering up the original choice. You are compounding the error by bring on DEATH to yourself should you advocate murder as an option for cover up."
I am really upset with your tangent today. You are a moderator, people look up to you and your opinions. Lashing out at some of us because you feel persecuted is stepping over the line of leadership.

Answer:

Hairbear,
You really like a fight. Well you are not going to get one today.
On murdering babies, we have already decided to agree to disagree. I have not changed my position on that with you. You can, however, take it back to the abortion thread and see if you can get some takers over there.
I will give you some Scripture verses relating to the issues of this thread:

I John 1:9-10
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
I John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us; but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Assuming that you are saved and I have no reason to doubt that you are, use the power of the Holy Spirit to discern the wording of these verses. Why ... they are so simple, you can probably do it without calling on the Holy Spirit to help you.
Bob CRyder Hataway
CP

Answer:

Bob
I apologize as I have not had enough time to read the 97 messages of email that I received this morning or the additional 37 that came through as I went on line this evening. I will read yours as you have commented on.
To air things here is what I thought this board was, a part of the car.net consortium, again, I apologize for my mistake. I will continue to abide by my beliefs and that my maker shall continue to guide me through a life of love understanding and forgiveness.

Answer:

Kathy,
Thank you for your post. You have now received another email from me concerning the differences in our opinions.
Suffice it to say here on the board that I accept your apology and if I have taken a stand in a harsh manner, I apologize to you. This does not mean that I change any of my opinions nor that you need to change yours based on what I say. Just let the Scripture be the guide that we use.
Folks, after reading the above post and these last two post including this one, this a clear cut example of how Christians try and work their problems out without trying to destroy one another.
I commend Kathy for her forthrightness to believe as she does, though I may think it wrong. I am still willing to allow Scripture to be our guide and not me. I am not the final say on any subject though I may come across that way many times. I believe strongly what I believe and I, personally, would have it no othe way.
A side note: What's all these little things showing up on the board now. Someone is going to have to tell me how to use them.
B
CP